maybe the servers are just much faster, maybe the UI is more slick, maybe they’re the first to implement a load of the features we like from RES, maybe they sell you some extra content for that vendor lock-in

They already do this though, it’s called Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. That’s why the EEE argument doesn’t make sense. The distinguishing features people keep talking about already exisit in a wall garden yet Mastodon has users. The features that Mastodon users want is freedom and control. Threads can’t compete with that but Threads can introduce millions of users to the concept of federation.

I don’t trust Facebook at all. But firstly, what we’re building needs to be resilient to bad actors. Secondly, it’s not a zero sum game, something can be beneficial for Facebook and the fediverse. Thirdly, let’s be honest, no one that is currently on Mastodon is ever going to migrate to threads. And something like Threads is the only way most people would join the fediverse. You can hate Facebook and still think that Threads may be beneficial for the fediverse, they’re not mutually exclusive positions.

I’m aware of the EEE argument. It’s just not valid in this instance. Let’s follow the EEE argument. Facebook extends the capabilities of activitypub and makes third party users no longer compatible. Then what? We’re in the exact same place we are now, Facebook having a wall garden and the rest of the fediverse doing its own thing.

I have no idea who Aaron Crowder is. Do you have a suggestion for a better meme template?

When the average user sees broken posts or can’t follow their favourite people anymore because of defederation, they just have a reason to move to a better instance.

This is where I think the EEE argument falls apart. Facebook, Instagram, & Twitter are all currently defederated instances with far better features and more people to follow and interact with. The EEE argument doesn’t affect the existing fediverse users. Maybe if Twitter federated there would be users moving between Facebook Threads and Twitter but not from the existing fediverse.

Facebook will do what’s best for Facebook. If Facebook joins the Fediverse then sharing tools to reduce spam will benefit Facebook. So I predict that Facebook would share such tooling.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is the concern, and it seems pretty likely that Facebook will try and take over the Fediverse by luring people in with propriety features

I don’t understand this argument. Who do you think would be lured from Mastodon to Facebook Threads? Is there a feature that Facebook could introduce that would make you consider moving to Facebook? I can’t think of one.

I agree that Facebook is an evil company. But there are instances when Facebook does good things, like open sourcing PrestoDB. Facebook only does good things when it benefits them. I’m arguing that this may be an instance where the Facebook and the fediverse align.

You got me :( I even used ChatGPT to try and sound more human - Zuck

The “user kick start” argument is interesting and not something I had heard. The fediverse does have active users which is valuable for growing a social media platform. However, Facebook would only need to convert 0.1% of it’s users to the new threads and it would drawf the fediverse. So I’m not sure of that’s their angle.

No, because they can’t buy the fediverse. We’re immune as we can defederate at anytime.

I appreciate what you’re saying though. This smells like Facebook it’s realizing where the future of social media is and they want to be a part of it. The difference this time is that they can’t own the social media.

Edit: typo

Facebook has open sourced loads of their internal tools, for instance PrestoDB. Open sourcing their internal tools is an advantage for Facebook as they get contributions from other developers. Fediverse tooling would fit this model.

Facebook is evil. But the fediverse should be resilient to evil bad actors, no matter who they are.

Yes but the fediverse needs to be resilient enough to deal with bad actors. It’s a probably that needs to be solved for the fediverse to grow, we should run towards the challenges instead of from them.

This highlights my point. This attack vector exists with or without threads. Facebook and friends can already scrape fediverse posts and map them to users. Defederating Meta instances won’t solve this vulnerability. Which is my point, people don’t understand the actual risks.

How is this relevant? Meta isn’t buying the fediverse

Facebook is currently the social media defacto standard. Instances can always defederate in the future. The EEE argument doesn’t fit in this situation.

It’s right in the middle, that sweet spot of consistency where you don’t get splash back.

I’m a failure, it hasn’t even been 2 days :(

I don’t think so, we’ve been traveling recently. On the up side I’ve seen some beautiful toilets. The down side is my diet is all over the place

I’m still going, I’ll let you know once I’m done